ive gotta vent

[spanky]

and this seems like a good place to do it.
i know that most people on here have been around mx for a while, so can someone tell me why, that when a race doesnt go perfect, people have to get on chat boards and say how unhappy they are...then they cry when a track closes??? I think ill call it mosier syndrome!
i haven't been criticized openly about my races on chat forums, from what Ive seen... but other tracks getting slammed is ridiculous. when a race is not going well, a promoter knows it, it hits us hard, and creates some serious stress. the last thing a promoter needs to hear is griping about what a horrible job they are doing!
btw this post has nothing to do with anything being said on this sight, or about me. i was just doing a little reading on another sight, and i needed to vent. it would also be nice to see a track suggestion/input forum, with no bashing allowed.
thanks TxMotocross, awesome forum

[motocoach]

I know of one such case recently and I can say for the one I am thinking of that sometimes the person making the statement is just the voice,but they aren't necesarilly his words..is it better if everyone thinks that one particular thing is bad to say something about it or not mention it and have people just not show up? sometimes its hard to interpret the context over the net and maybe that's not the best way to handle it...but if that promoter comes back and says it will be fixed,then everybody knows and will return to see the changes...maybe?

[motocoach]

I know of one such case recently and I can say for the one I am thinking of that sometimes the person making the statement is just the voice,but they aren't necesarilly his words..is it better if everyone thinks that one particular thing is bad to say something about it or not mention it and have people just not show up? sometimes its hard to interpret the context over the net and maybe that's not the best way to handle it...but if that promoter comes back and says it will be fixed,then everybody knows and will return to see the changes...maybe?

[SMF]

Welcome to the interweb, where mice become men. A place where the nutless become studs, and the ignorant seem genious.

I've been watching this very thing play out for years, and it never ceases to amaze me.

[Zero]

People bitch and moan on forums because they can.

Some of them do it thinking that someone in charge may see it and try and fix it for the future?

Some people do it trying to harm the reputation of the track.

Some people do it looking for answers.

Some people do it hoping for an explanation from a represenative or someone in the know.


Criticism is always good or bad. Everyone learns something.


Be careful what tracks you complain about, if its the "wrong" track you might get moderated....oh wait, thats the other place that does that.

[SMF]

What "0" said. I learned early on to take it for what it's worth.

Sometimes there is wisdom in the words, but most times, not so much.

[11kphotos]

Alot of it is what you say and how you say it. Some people take it forgranted that the internet stretches past their tiny monitors and that a bad reputation can cause serious damage. So chalk it up to the nutless wonder scenario that SMF mentioned and just good old fashioned ignorance. There's a difference between saying the prep sucked vs the track is dangerous and we wont be back until changes are made. that's just full of stupid assumptions.

Consider your position as well, being on both sides. it's frustrating for sure because you are providing a service, busting your ass, providing a facility for people to enjoy themselves and then get slammed for not doing enough. It amazes me what you guys have to tolerate.

[spanky]

well i just got word this morning, on what i was venting about ...well it is prolly gonna happen, so everyone can start crying now. word has it that the chp mini national may be gone! the biggest pitbike race next to vegas...
I didnt get to make it this year but i was hoping to next year, hopefully everyone will email CHP and tell them what a blast it was, maybe somthing will change.

[lackey227]

No matter what you do at your races or what track changes you make you can never please everyone. There's always an ahole in every bunch. thats just life. I've worked at several tracks and yes Mosier is one of them and i 've seen it happen at everyone that I have been involved with.But the people complaining don't know the hard work or dedication involved in put on a race or maintaining a track.

[blankplate]

It was always a little dream of mine to own a track. That was until I started visiting these chat boards.

Now, I dont think you could pay me enough to run one. My hat is off to ALL the guys that run a track no matter how big or small it is.

[lackey227]

I will second that, Its a full time 7 days a week job. From sun up to sun down.

[CamP]

Everybody is an expert on the internet.

I would never surf the net if I promoted a track.

[salt472]

Everybody is an expert on the internet.

I would never surf the net if I promoted a track.

uhhh? i always thot you were some sort of represenative for river valley?

[himom819]

Everybody is an expert on the internet.

I would never surf the net if I promoted a track.

uhhh? i always thot you were some sort of represenative for river valley?


here we go.

[fastlane]

Even though I have never met Trey, with Swan, but he has the right idea. You can race his track if you want to, and if you dont want to, you can hit the road. He does not frequent any websites and apparently could care less about any such Internet complaining and bashing. I respect that and believe that makes him the smart one.

[DPW]

the sad part is the one puss that does not like the track will make the post about track XYZ being POS and the other 50 guys that rode there and loved it don't post....some times the riders that like will track will say the track was awesome, but the most vocal are the negative Nancys

[SMF]

Even though I have never met Trey, with Swan, but he has the right idea. You can race his track if you want to, and if you dont want to, you can hit the road. He does not frequent any websites and apparently could care less about any such Internet complaining and bashing. I respect that and believe that makes him the smart one.

Guess that doesn't say much for me... :lol:

[CamP]

Everybody is an expert on the internet.

I would never surf the net if I promoted a track.

uhhh? i always thot you were some sort of represenative for river valley?

You "thought" wrong.

[broken_rod]

i want to whine about something....and that is track owners whining about people whining about their tracks. hello, mcfly! news flash: if you own a track you own a business. that means you have these things called customers. they will talk about you, good or bad. the internet just makes it easier for them to talk to each other. get used to it. work with it. evolve or die!!!

wp.

[mx320]

i want to whine about something....and that is track owners whining about people whining about their tracks. hello, mcfly! news flash: if you own a track you own a business. that means you have these things called customers. they will talk about you, good or bad. the internet just makes it easier for them to talk to each other. get used to it. work with it. evolve or die!!!

wp.

Man, that is so true with anything. Good post!

[spanky]

i want to whine about something....and that is track owners whining about people whining about their tracks. hello, mcfly! news flash: if you own a track you own a business. that means you have these things called customers. they will talk about you, good or bad. the internet just makes it easier for them to talk to each other. get used to it. work with it. evolve or die!!!

wp.
haha thanks will, i personally have no problem with it, towards my track. i was just tired of seeing all the bashing on buffalo creek about the chp mini national. then i was told that the mini nat. was being pulled for good. chp didn't invest all that money to hear all the bashing like they have.
i work my track hands on 7 days a week, im the guy up until 3 am every race day to get the track prepped, so i know what my customers want, and im the first to now when something isnt right, because im the first who isnt happy...if not me then my biggest track critic, my kid. he complains about something every day.
btw do you really see track owners whining? not an argument, im just wandering here, and i agree, we need feedback to evolve. that is why i built a completely new day track. but it wouldnt hurt for it to be feedback, rather than bitchin.

[CamP]

The old phrase "you can't please everyone" has never been truer.

The problem with every tom, dick and harry spouting their opinion on the interweb is that you will have many people that will read someone's negative take on a track and consider it gospel without forming their own opinion by actually visiting and riding it. Will even admitted at one point that he hadn't ridden RV because he heard it was no good. Will has visited RV quite often since then so I guess it's better than he was initially lead to believe.

My view is that if you have a question, concern or complaint about a track, address it with the owner, face to face, in a polite and diplomatic way. Those guys work their asses off for all of us and it's really a kick in the balls when they get criticized in an open forum. It's not fair to them because we don't know what is happening behind the scenes. Just be thankful that those guys are providing us a place to ride, because without them, there is no motocross.

[lackey227]

nicely, said owning a track is hard work and some of us appericate the tracks we get to ride.

[11kphotos]

Very well said Camp. There's a nice little thread going on in the training forum that kind of ties into this.
DPW has said that you should conduct yourself on the net the same way you would in person. Sadly, some people do this and you wouldnt believe the results.

[Neyhart198dad]

Spanky,first off I am writing this not being a smart ass so please dont take it that way.
I really dont think people complained to much about the track,the track is a pretty good track,I personally like the track,and will continue to go out there for practices,just wont race there anymore.
I think the peoples main gripes about that event was the scoring mix ups and the organization of the event.From other posts on other boards,maybe the scoring mix ups could have been prevented by the riders themselves not switch numbers between motos.But this is not the first time or the first event there that has had scoring issues.Just read some posts on other boards they have had EMT issues at alot of events,track issues,sign up issues etc. like I said earlier IN MY OPINION they just arent ready for bigger series races and big events,could you see a Pro Circut or a NTNS series being ran there?I would say no,not right now.Maybe they should do like VC and do something like Night Flights on the weekends to get all the bugs worked out there,I dont know,but as long as they are having issues like this they are going to get negative remarks and comments posted on forum boards.Enough about them.
Maybe you could contact CHP and see if they could try it one more time,and host it at your track,to keep the event alive.Get a petition or something going and see if the riders would come to your track for that event.

[zookrider62]

i want to whine about something....and that is track owners whining about people whining about their tracks. hello, mcfly! news flash: if you own a track you own a business. that means you have these things called customers. they will talk about you, good or bad. the internet just makes it easier for them to talk to each other. get used to it. work with it. evolve or die!!!

wp.
haha thanks will, i personally have no problem with it, towards my track. i was just tired of seeing all the bashing on buffalo creek about the chp mini national. then i was told that the mini nat. was being pulled for good. chp didn't invest all that money to hear all the bashing like they have.
i work my track hands on 7 days a week, im the guy up until 3 am every race day to get the track prepped, so i know what my customers want, and im the first to now when something isnt right, because im the first who isnt happy...if not me then my biggest track critic, my kid. he complains about something every day.
btw do you really see track owners whining? not an argument, im just wandering here, and i agree, we need feedback to evolve. that is why i built a completely new day track. but it wouldnt hurt for it to be feedback, rather than bitchin.
The problem with that statement is that to some extent the owners think of there tracks as there babies, and when they read or hear criticism they automatically take the offensive and see it as complaining not constructive criticism. But I do know that you guys do hear just a lot of bashing on your tracks and not necessarily CC so i think everyone gets somewhat blurred on when they are being offered helpful advice not just being complained too.
And btw when im saying you guys i dont mean the NTMX people i just mean track owners in general.

[Zero]

DPW has said that you should conduct yourself on the net the same way you would in person. Sadly, some people do this and you wouldnt believe the results.

Oh yeh, what people do this? Just wondering.

[Fuquamx]

Ya' know I've gotta' pipe in on this one...I don't have a problem w/ people who complain over the internet. Personaly, I would do it face to face, but to each his own. I think the biggest diservice customers can do to a business is not let the owners know when they have a problem w/ their product. For every person who complains, there's 10-15 who think the same thing, but are not willing to speak up. Instead, they just don't come back or quit buying the product. Corporations spend millions to find out what consumers want. It's difficult not to take criticism personal, especially when you put your heart into something, but that's exactly what needs to happen. Take it for what it is and move on. Now....another pet peeve of mine....the term "constructive criticism". There is no such thing!!! Criticism is just that...it's meant to tear down. Most people will say "it's just contructive criticism", but leave out the contructive part. If you don't offer advice on how to improve the situation then your just criticizing!! Quit pretending your trying to help!! Thats all I've got to say 'bout that.

[zookrider62]

How can you make a suggestion and it not be criticism? If you think a car is ugly and you say "That thing is so ugly the makers should be shot" that would just be criticism. But if you were to say "the front on that is messed up its way to square, they should round it out a bit" that would be constructive critism. It tells them that something is wrong so yes it is criticism, but it also tells how to fix it thereby being constructive...
Just trying to give you a little constructive criticism on how to make suggestions :lol:

[11kphotos]

DPW has said that you should conduct yourself on the net the same way you would in person. Sadly, some people do this and you wouldnt believe the results.

Oh yeh, what people do this? Just wondering.

ah, it's the ones that act the same on the internet (slow, use alot of slang) that actually talk that way in person. those are the ones i was talking about. but you are the same on/off the net. ahole either way.

[broken_rod]

The old phrase "you can't please everyone" has never been truer.

The problem with every tom, dick and harry spouting their opinion on the interweb is that you will have many people that will read someone's negative take on a track and consider it gospel without forming their own opinion by actually visiting and riding it. Will even admitted at one point that he hadn't ridden RV because he heard it was no good. Will has visited RV quite often since then so I guess it's better than he was initially lead to believe.

let me clarify this. my initial reluctance in going to rv was NOT caused by anything i read on the interwebnet. the track was described (a year ago) to me by a friend i ride with regularly. he didn't have fun AT THAT TIME and said i wouldn't either. i know him, and i know if he says it, then it is so, especially since our skill level is similar. however, i still pay attention and keep an open mind. as i talked to other riders and watched internet traffic, it became clear that the dirt at rv was fantastic and that the track was being improved. so, i went, and yes, i continue to go because i do have fun there. and, for the record, my bro has been their since and he had fun, too!

now here's where cam and i part ways. he said "Those guys work their asses off for all of us and it's really a kick in the balls when they get criticized in an open forum. It's not fair to them because we don't know what is happening behind the scenes. Just be thankful that those guys are providing us a place to ride, because without them, there is no motocross."

sorry, cam, but this is crap. NONE of these guys work their asses off for us, they work their asses off for THEMSELVES and their families. last i checked, NOBODY goes into the business of charity. track owners don't PROVIDE us with anything, or else it would be free. they SELL us a place to ride. that's what makes us customers and what, at the end of the day, gives us the right to say anything, anywhere, about any track we want to. what i hope is that people can say things constructively (i wish!) and that the listeners could apply and respond constructively in return (again...my fantasy world!). ultimately it's up to each of us to sort the grain from the trash!

wp.

[Fuquamx]

How can you make a suggestion and it not be criticism? If you think a car is ugly and you say "That thing is so ugly the makers should be shot" that would just be criticism. But if you were to say "the front on that is messed up its way to square, they should round it out a bit" that would be constructive critism. It tells them that something is wrong so yes it is criticism, but it also tells how to fix it thereby being constructive...
Just trying to give you a little constructive criticism on how to make suggestions :lol:


It's a play on words, but one that many people have difficulty understanding. Construct means to build, to improve, make better. Criticism does just the opposite. It's impossible to do both at the same time. In the example that you gave "the front on that is messed up, it's way to square" That's the criticism. You don't like the way the car looks. Do you think the person that designed the car would appreciate your critique? Probably not. If the car doesn't sell because it's butt ugly, they may realize you were right and take your advice on how to improve by " rounding it out a bit". That's constructive. Two different acts, even though you used them in the same sentence. Any good coach or teacher realizes that the two are completely different and uses both to make changes that are beneficial to the individual. The reason I have a problem w/ the term "constructive criticism" is that alot of people criticize w/out any constuctive instruction afterwards. If your going to tear something down by being critical, especially when it comes to people, you should have in mind a way to help them improve after your done criticizing. It helps if you keep in mind that the two are completely different. Think of it in terms of tearing down on old house to build a new one. One has to be done before the other and you can't do both at the same time. By the way...you don't have to be rude when you criticize...that just makes it personal. Just my humble opinion...well...maybe not so humble. :D

[CamP]

sorry, cam, but this is crap. NONE of these guys work their asses off for us, they work their asses off for THEMSELVES and their families. last i checked, NOBODY goes into the business of charity. track owners don't PROVIDE us with anything, or else it would be free. they SELL us a place to ride. that's what makes us customers and what, at the end of the day, gives us the right to say anything, anywhere, about any track we want to. what i hope is that people can say things constructively (i wish!) and that the listeners could apply and respond constructively in return (again...my fantasy world!). ultimately it's up to each of us to sort the grain from the trash!

wp.

We'll have to agree to disagree then Will. I know for a fact that running a MX track is not a money making proposition. Today, Terry Cordray is the only promoter in North Texas that makes a full time living doing it and the reason he's able to do that is because his mother already owned the property and it's in the metroplex. Everyone else does it as a hobby because they love dirt bikes. If it pays for the expenses they are lucky.

I've lived here for 43 years and been riding since 1971. I've seen them come and go...mostly go. Any MBA grad would take a look at typical MX track's business model and walk. If you are doing it for the money, you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

[fastlane]

sorry, cam, but this is crap. NONE of these guys work their asses off for us, they work their asses off for THEMSELVES and their families. last i checked, NOBODY goes into the business of charity. track owners don't PROVIDE us with anything, or else it would be free. they SELL us a place to ride. that's what makes us customers and what, at the end of the day, gives us the right to say anything, anywhere, about any track we want to. what i hope is that people can say things constructively (i wish!) and that the listeners could apply and respond constructively in return (again...my fantasy world!). ultimately it's up to each of us to sort the grain from the trash!

wp.

We'll have to agree to disagree then Will. I know for a fact that running a MX track is not a money making proposition. Today, Terry Cordray is the only promoter in North Texas that makes a full time living doing it and the reason he's able to do that is because his mother already owned the property and it's in the metroplex. Everyone else does it as a hobby because they love dirt bikes. If it pays for the expenses they are lucky.

I've lived here for 43 years and been riding since 1971. I've seen them come and go...mostly go. Any MBA grad would take a look at typical MX track's business model and walk. If you are doing it for the money, you are doing it for the wrong reasons.


Bingo

[broken_rod]

Any MBA grad would take a look at typical MX track's business model and walk. If you are doing it for the money, you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

now THAT we agree on, for sure!! :lol:

wp.

[blankplate]

Here is the breakdown of my constructive criticism

Criticism: Shut up and.....

Constructive: RIDE!!










I think the Jack's kickin' in.

[spanky]

Spanky,first off I am writing this not being a smart ass so please dont take it that way.
I really dont think people complained to much about the track,the track is a pretty good track,I personally like the track,and will continue to go out there for practices,just wont race there anymore.
I think the peoples main gripes about that event was the scoring mix ups and the organization of the event.From other posts on other boards,maybe the scoring mix ups could have been prevented by the riders themselves not switch numbers between motos.But this is not the first time or the first event there that has had scoring issues.Just read some posts on other boards they have had EMT issues at alot of events,track issues,sign up issues etc. like I said earlier IN MY OPINION they just arent ready for bigger series races and big events,could you see a Pro Circut or a NTNS series being ran there?I would say no,not right now.Maybe they should do like VC and do something like Night Flights on the weekends to get all the bugs worked out there,I dont know,but as long as they are having issues like this they are going to get negative remarks and comments posted on forum boards.Enough about them.
Maybe you could contact CHP and see if they could try it one more time,and host it at your track,to keep the event alive.Get a petition or something going and see if the riders would come to your track for that event.
now thats good feedback.
i talk to the manager at chp all the time, and he is working on the owner right now. everyone who would like to see it stay, send them an email.
as far as scoring and signup goes, checkout their round of the Texas State Outlaw Championship, Audie,(from nocona) and my wife will be overseeing it. and both of them are great at it.
hope you'll give it another try, atleast for this race.

[spanky]

wow i was just trying to vent on somthig i was reading on mxcrazy, 3 pages...lol.

[zookrider62]

How can you make a suggestion and it not be criticism? If you think a car is ugly and you say "That thing is so ugly the makers should be shot" that would just be criticism. But if you were to say "the front on that is messed up its way to square, they should round it out a bit" that would be constructive critism. It tells them that something is wrong so yes it is criticism, but it also tells how to fix it thereby being constructive...
Just trying to give you a little constructive criticism on how to make suggestions :lol:


It's a play on words, but one that many people have difficulty understanding. Construct means to build, to improve, make better. Criticism does just the opposite. It's impossible to do both at the same time. In the example that you gave "the front on that is messed up, it's way to square" That's the criticism. You don't like the way the car looks. Do you think the person that designed the car would appreciate your critique? Probably not. If the car doesn't sell because it's butt ugly, they may realize you were right and take your advice on how to improve by " rounding it out a bit". That's constructive. Two different acts, even though you used them in the same sentence. Any good coach or teacher realizes that the two are completely different and uses both to make changes that are beneficial to the individual. The reason I have a problem w/ the term "constructive criticism" is that alot of people criticize w/out any constuctive instruction afterwards. If your going to tear something down by being critical, especially when it comes to people, you should have in mind a way to help them improve after your done criticizing. It helps if you keep in mind that the two are completely different. Think of it in terms of tearing down on old house to build a new one. One has to be done before the other and you can't do both at the same time. By the way...you don't have to be rude when you criticize...that just makes it personal. Just my humble opinion...well...maybe not so humble. :D
Ah i get what your are saying, but i do think the main problem, though, is just the douches that go off and claim its constructive criticism, that gives people such a problem with the term

[Neyhart198dad]

Spanky,first off I am writing this not being a smart ass so please dont take it that way.
I really dont think people complained to much about the track,the track is a pretty good track,I personally like the track,and will continue to go out there for practices,just wont race there anymore.
I think the peoples main gripes about that event was the scoring mix ups and the organization of the event.From other posts on other boards,maybe the scoring mix ups could have been prevented by the riders themselves not switch numbers between motos.But this is not the first time or the first event there that has had scoring issues.Just read some posts on other boards they have had EMT issues at alot of events,track issues,sign up issues etc. like I said earlier IN MY OPINION they just arent ready for bigger series races and big events,could you see a Pro Circut or a NTNS series being ran there?I would say no,not right now.Maybe they should do like VC and do something like Night Flights on the weekends to get all the bugs worked out there,I dont know,but as long as they are having issues like this they are going to get negative remarks and comments posted on forum boards.Enough about them.
Maybe you could contact CHP and see if they could try it one more time,and host it at your track,to keep the event alive.Get a petition or something going and see if the riders would come to your track for that event.
now thats good feedback.
i talk to the manager at chp all the time, and he is working on the owner right now. everyone who would like to see it stay, send them an email.
as far as scoring and signup goes, checkout their round of the Texas State Outlaw Championship, Audie,(from nocona) and my wife will be overseeing it. and both of them are great at it.
hope you'll give it another try, atleast for this race.

Whats the email address for CHP and I would be happy to send them a e-mail to host the event at your track.I may just have to give it one more chance if you guys are the score keepers.
Hope this helps

[spanky]

im not so much wanting to see it at my place, but i just dont want to see it go. i have some pitbike followers, and i try to support them. besides, i love pitbikes.
i know their address is www.hondaminitrail.com you can find the email link there.